The recidivism statistics bear this out, and the treatment programs are just as disappointing. Drunk driving wasnt just a one time incident, and drunk driving with kids in the car didnt happen just the once either. Sigh. His ethanol-fueled rant in the back seat of that cop car got described as Instant A-hole; Just Add Alcohol.. Or would you see the situation differently? Velour wrote: job loss). That sounds very Mark Driscoll-ian. I said in my post that the topic is banned on your blog (which is a shame, because learning about it has helped me immensely. In our former church, which I understand was similar in many ways to RC Jrs church, it involved either calling a congregational meeting (that would be to talk about the situation before taking it to excommunication) and then acting when the congregation was gathered together for worship (the cynical part of me wants to say, The more the merrier but it probably has something to do with holiness and ceremony), an elder would read out a statement and pronounce the excommunication. http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/. He needs to be in an in-patient treatment program. He needs a skill-intervention by those people around him. I have updated the post with photos of the injuries I sustained almost 45 years ago because someone chose to drink and drive. Why? Not sure I would quite go this far (God is the only that can really say this) but RC2 certainly has denied Gods power that Paul wrote about in II Tim 3:5. Odds are remote that RC Jr will ever go, but the CR program can be extremely helpful to family members. As far as CPS removing his kids goes, they probably wont as long as she remains in the household, unless there is proof of her abetting his drunk driving with kids in the car. His daughter, Shannon, born with Lissencephaly , died in October, 2014 at the age of 15. We dont know. Dr. R.C. or a swindler [scams, cons] As I started to spend more time alone with God and listen to Where Could I Go, but to the Lord, my heart started to change. I wasnt talking about you or about what you said. I would because its factoring into your misunderstanding or assumptions about Barbaras first post to this thread. And then there are those who say stuff that is good as gold and kind to the core. We have covered some of these issues through the years. Christian support group, made headlines in The Milpitas Post , etc, etc. If you think that is hateful, your gripe is with the Bible not with me. She may not have much say over what he does, especially anything involving his children. I have had plastic surgery three times. I didnt have serious burns, jist brown patches, PTL! Their denial is just a problematic as the person who is the problem drinker. But it is also remarkable how MUCH can be done to protect others from the addict, that is NOT done. Q. To be Faire To Claire, I rather think she was denying, not creating, the correlation. Very true. He regained his health, went to AA, extensive counseling and stayed sober. Im going to look at this again, with your comments in mind. So Ill start to believe that RC is repentant when he contacts me personally to confess and repent of all the damage he caused me and my family. Thus if one interprets RC Sproul Jr.s actions as not persevering then according to what they teach Sproul was never a believer. Youre absolutely correct about the damage that these false teachings have done to so many people who will forever associate them with the church and wont step foot in a church again. There are many women, including older women, who struggle with addictions. I spoke as softly as I did (from your POV) because others here apparently do not realize that drunkenness is clearly called a sin in the Bible. H.A. And it compounds their pain and affects those around them also. His daughter, Shannon, born with Lissencephaly,died in October, 2014 at the age of 15. My mothers brother died of alcoholism. Read More Contact Vesta Sproul's Phone Number and Email Last Update 11/9/2022 8:43 PM Email v***@ligonier.org Engage via Email Contact Number (***) ***-**** Engage via Phone Mobile Number (***) ***-**** Engage via Mobile While it is your prerogative since it is your blog, there are other legitimate treatment methods that do incorporate the word and there is nothing wrong with it. 12 step recovery (which I noted above is being challenged as the dominant mode of alcohol and drug addiction recovery in the US) is still pretty widespread and its tenents are a spiritual awakening via the 12 steps, followed by maintenance of a spiritual program largely of humility, honesty and service to others. Then the plea deal is even worse than listed. You can read our explanation here: She received the same love that she would have been given if her disease had been something more socially acceptableand the church helped prevent her from being isolated. That prison sentence was suspended and he was remanded to 1 year active adult probation. Spinderella Sproul web article. The job description was medical officer, non-clinical for the VA in which I reviewed medical records and tried to explain medical things to people who had no medical training, including but not limited to the lawyers on the BVA (Board of Veterans Appeals). 1. I have to have a blood sugar reading within certain limits in order to be allowed to drive. Thanks Gram3 for your explanation of the damage that R.C. Galatians 6 seems to differentiate between those people who are to be restored and those in ICor 5 that are to be put out. Blog owners can run their blogs how they like. Changed lives. agreed: if a person does not want to stop drinking, they cant be forced; but if the person gets into enough trouble (ie. I responded to your comment with a quote from RC Sproul, but the comment is not yet visible, probably because of the words Sproul used. RC Sproul Jrinitiallypled *not guilty," proving he wasnot ready to face his issues. Here bones had been severely broken, and I will never forget seeing her elbow and knee in traction. Im not contesting that. Apparently he was genetically hardwired for alcoholism; from his first taste of alcohol, he immediately wanted more and more and more. The first semester we lost 20 guys who were so put off by Daddy and Jr. picking students out and tearing them down in front of the class. We also have personal experience with RC Jr. But then we have more disposable income. I have been talking about how the church should react in the face of this sort of egregious behavior. Am still not seeing how sitting about with other people will cure certain issues such as alcoholism. https://rachelheldevans.com/blog/ask-a-recovering-alcopholic-response-heather-kopp. I think Annie found sanctuary in the best sense of the word. During all my time of distress, nobody in the church was there for me, whether inside or outside a brick building with a cross and steeple. If RC Jr could have legally used the rack at St. Peter Presbyterian Im confident he would have, at the very least, held out the threat of its use. Thanks! That is carrying it too far. But to take that info and post it here? And here is the moderators response to Cortney: Cortney, your story is not an isolated incident. ( Im a Harvest Bible Chapel member and I keep up with all things JMAC). Sadly, too many churches disapprove of love and kindness, or cherry pick who is deserving. lots of contempt in them there words .. what is the story behind them? So someone asked how can sitting in the pews help a recovering alcoholic. Lisa clearly doesnt understand the scope of Drug Court, the cases they can legally accept (felony indictments are an immediate and mandatory disqualification), but this isnt surprising. This past Saturday, June 17, my daughter was married. But please dont assume that I am not for treatment. Hes has experienced tragedy and he needs treatment but at the core is still an odious personality. @ brian: For me these people are PURE EVIL!! Call me an old fuddy-duddy, but I will upset folks if I keep talking catch you on the next TWW piece. So whether or not the church eventually deals with his behavior, his children have a good chance of becoming atheists anyhow. The writer Anne Lamott, a recovering alcoholic, writes about going to a black church in Northern California when Anne was not sober. Spinderella points out that his behavior is hypocritical, given Sproul'sinvolvement in the Pro-Life Movement. It was far more than a couple drinks a day. But the church should also do their level-best to get him into treatment since hes a full-blown alcoholic with all of the classic symptoms. If these stories are true, then it is evident that Sproul looked to alcohol for relief from his pain and was able to ignore the fact that he was, in fact, treating his depression. From this description, Anne was not in leadership at her church, and she was not actively hurting others in the church, or pushing alcoholic beverages on others in that church to somehow justify her own drinking. hUmLSW>@"4buv @nwdK:Z!n:=YQ2!e.e?e-Ksr}}= `W* 4+Fb4zB %ta D@ulB8A aP~ZL]one_'D=HAq2} (x3`k0m\ Y ^kFS^ZU%\ In this particular case, RC2, there is more involved than just the alcohol issue. Surely his dad RC SproulSr would have dealt with it. I would ask that you not use it again though. What that entails goes far beyond boundaries and often means marital separation, i.e. Another time I may share a miracle that happened in my family members life. Sproul, an influential Christian theologian from Sanford who spread his evangelical teachings to millions of followers around the world through books, tapes, radio broadcasts and podcasts,. Another poster posted Scripture from one of Pauls letters about not fellowshipping with people who proclaim faith in Christ Jesus, but live a life of continual unrepentant sin. Youve got some great insights. But putting him out of the church does not stop him getting that assistance. These accounts can be found in many places on the internet. Sr. cant make Jr. stop drinking. @ Velour: The woman who hit us was found guilty of manslaughter and served time in prison. I would dearly love to avoid the aforesaid black hole, and so I wont attach this point to any particular name, but I agree with it: if indeed Mr Sprouls executive oversight of the organisation is as it has been described here, then alcohol is one more reason he needs to be removed, not just as CEO, but from membership of the organisation. Odds are high theyll just make a bad situation worse. If they will listen to anyone at all it has to be someone whos been there themselves. it seems too public and intrusive for most people, I think; the worst thing Ive heard is that the leaders of the accountability groups go running to the pastor with all the details and what is admitted to in the group comes back later to haunt the person if they attempt to leave the Church. Haha. I posted my earlier reply to you too soon and I didnt answer your point. How do you see it different from me? Sproul 2 should be kicked out of his church and that he wasnt really a believer, etc. Praise God, that is truly His heart and should be ours. That a pastor is a drunk, is reason enough for the Congregation to fire him. I draw the readers particular attention to Dees phrase: treated by those who are not overly impressed with the Sproul name. Not just over the alcohol, but based on his other actions (using a cheating site etc) he has disqualified himself. Tragically, her parents were killed upon impact, and my friend and I were pinned in the GMC pick-up in which we were riding. (not that any of us arent being transparent in this virtual thing, here. Because DUIs are manly. Yes, there sure is. The writer Anne Lamott, a recovering alcoholic, writes about going to a black church in Northern California when Anne was not sober. Churches through the valley recommended us to parents of teens in trouble with drugs and alcohol. (I have an NHS-supplied test kit, so this is simple enough.) The atonement was made by the human nature of Christ.. For Sproul Jr. to only get probation and no prison term must have been the result of having a good lawyer. As for Presbyterian oversight his denomination defrocked him in 2006. I think what I am trying yo say is each person stands before God on his/her own.were we guilty of our sons choices,? Introducing The Keller Center. And yet you keep raising issues over and over again, saying that I support things that I do not. Once again Velours advice is pragmatic and sound. There are phone books with that same information. Thanks for your response. Many resources already exist and are perfectly fine. I even pointed out that books BY people who are MHPs themselves mention cautions to their readers to be careful when doctor shopping because, they say, some MHPs are inept or charlatans. That is also comparing apples to oranges. Velour wrote: Of course not. I speak at CR on behalf of educating, as well as other community organizations supporting families such as AA. The ceiling didnt come crashing down and God didnt scream from the rafters, Sinners, the lot of you! Alcohol can kill, it can ruin marriages and finances and it's a waste of Gods finances but that is all my personal opinion. Abuse is a different issue. This does not give any of us an excuse to walk in disobedience to the Lord as he has. Can you imagine for one second the shame and embarrassment of having everyone know that your mom is a fall down drunk? Sproul Jr. is receiving and that persons training/licensing. He did get booted out of office and will most ptobably lose his law license . Velour The chronic behavior (for decades) that I and others have mentioned: spiritual abuse, Ashley Madison, putting his family in harms way by drinking and driving, are more than enough to get him kicked out. Come on People!!!! It seems to me that secure and confident men (I dont like the term real men/women) should do as they wish/deem wise themselves, instead of acting like teenage boys trying to impress each other. We all deserve love. I havent read all the comments, so forgive me if I am off topic by this point. I also believe we should take this in context with Matthew 18 and Galatians 6 and James 1 (and maybe others, too). Good for him. Sproul Jrs spiritually abusive treatment of church members and whole families. Someone earlier said RC Sproul Jr a psychopath. As you might already know he recently plead guilty to one felony in a plea bargain. Im not getting the disconnect going on in this thread. And then, even *within* a denomination, my former one being PC-USA, when a pastor is fired for cause (affairs, embezzlement), he can move across the country, and in a different regional body, talk his way back into a pastoral position. I am NOT saying that the oppressed one does NOT need attention and HELP!!! An avid Steelers and Pirates fan, sports were a big part of his life. Gracious hostess, no doubt that its sin gone amok. I am sorry to hear this. I feel for his family and his victims but there wont be any hugs coming from my direction. Here is a reportof the arresting officer. OK, well, Im not sure if I am in agreement with that view or not. Id say that was posted by a chatbot if it werent for the fact that there did seem to be some semantic link between the sentences. Perhaps you have very little experience with people (men and women) who have gotten clean and sober. He has to be protected from injuring himself or others-regardless of the fact that it is a sickness and not a crime. Again, I realize that was not the point of the original argument. Kind of like connecting Lizzie Borden to a lumberjack because both of them used an ax. Also wanted to add that is where my mind goes first too on this thread, too. That being said, Im also learning a few things here. Menu. As a matter of fact, when a denomination refuses to ordain a particular person, that person can go start his own *denomination* and set himself up as its bishop and be quite successful at so doing. Vesta Sproul: Advice for Young Converts NonConformist Ministries 38 subscribers 7.3K views 2 years ago In this video Andy Woodard of NonConformist Ministries interviews Vesta Sproul, wife of. View Source Suggest Edits Memorial Photos Flowers Created by: Karen Added: 14 Dec 2017 Find a Grave Memorial ID: 185907097 Sponsored by Jack Harper is someone who could benefit from Al-Anon too, for the family and friends of problem drinkers. THEN, the problem grows even larger. Vesta Voorhis Sproul (age 84) is listed at 347 Bellview Pl Sanford, Fl 32771 and is affiliated with the Republican Party. She told me before she died that she had forgiven him & she never thought she would. At no time did I say that R.C. http://www.ligonier.org/blog/it-accurate-say-god-died-cross/. It turned out to be rum. In fact most drunk drivers are pulled over by the police not because theyre driving recklessly, but because theyre driving abnormally slow. I need to verify you are who you say you are, but will respect your privacy. There just arent that many emotionally healthy churches who even know how to genuinely love sober people, let alone the chemically dependent ones. Ashley Madison and then lying, lying, and lying again, never telling the truth about it.Raging at children, taunting them, and trying to erase their mothers memory by destroying and withholding photographs and mementos. Third Woman Victim of Tullian Tchividjians Seduction Gives Details; She Reportedly Extends Timeline of His Adulteries Back into2013, Survivor of Tullian Tchividjians Alleged Clergy Sexual Abuse Goes Public with Her Story Part1, Survivor of Tullian Tchividjians Alleged Clergy Sexual Abuse Goes Public with Her Story Part2, Survivor of Tullian Tchividjians Alleged Clergy Sexual Abuse Goes Public with Her Story Part3, Survivor of Tullian Tchividjians Alleged Clergy Sexual Abuse Goes Public with Her Story Part4, Tullian Tchividjian Partial Timeline of Alleged Clergy Sexual Abuse and SpiritualAbuse, Pastors Tullian Tchividjian + Bob Coy + Sexual Sin + Church Leaders Who Protect Immoral Pastors = A BrokenChurch, Tullian Tchividjian Stripped of Pastor Credentials; Continues Speaking Behind the Pulpits of Twitter andFacebook, Greg Morse at Desiring God Laments StrongWomen. The churches we worked with said they could not handle the work we did. 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