By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Tims severed head by the hair in the other. JASON HALSTEAD/WINNIPEG SUN, Photo by Jason Halstead/Winnipeg Sun/QMI Agency. When the criminal court system washed their hands of Vince Li, the mental health system took over. I am glad to take it. Baker was found not criminally responsible (NCR) for killing Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus in 2008. The flaw in the criminal legal (not justice) system is theres no respect for victims like Tim McLean and his family. God controls all things and God made me do it.. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. But the aftermath was awful. Li emigrated to Canada from China in 2001 and became a Canadian citizen four years later. He reclused like so many mentally-ill people do. Li has an incurable disease that makes him do terrible things, Carol says. Wouldnt it be funny if we started a restaurant. When he killed Tim McLean, he stabbed him in the neck and chest with a large hunting knife. SUN DANCE WHY CUSTER REALLY LOST THE BATTLE OF THE LITTLE BIGHORN, JOSEPH WAMBAUGH INTERVIEWING CRIME WRITINGS MASTER OF CHARACTERS, MISTER BIG UNDERCOVER STING CONVICTS ANOTHER COLD CASE KILLER, GET YOUR EROTIC BDSM KINKS AT THE SOUTHWEST LEATHER CONFERENCE, AMAZON FREE E-BOOK NEW YEARS PROMOTION NO LIFE UNTIL DEATH BY GARRY RODGERS, MERRY CHRISTMAS & WHATSUP FOR 2019 WITH GARRY RODGERS WRITING, THE ASTOUNDING SECRET BEHIND LEONARDO DA VINCIS CREATIVE GENIUS, UNCONVENTIONAL CRIME WRITING WITH L.A. SCREENWRITER & NOVELIST JENNIFER GRAESER DORNBUSH, KUDOS TO WHOEVER WHACKED GANGSTER JAMES WHITEY BULGER, THE MOTHER FROM HELLMUNCHAUSEN SYNDROME BY PROXY, DONALD TRUMP UNDERSTANDING THE PRESIDENTS PERSONALITY WITH ENNEAGRAM PSYCHOLOGICAL TYPING, DEVELOPING THE MILLION-SELLING INDIE AUTHOR MINDSET WITH ADAM CROFT, CHARLES MANSONS REAL MOTIVE FOR HIS CULT MURDERS, HOW COPS HARASS CITIZENS THE WETASKIWIN, ALBERTA WAY, SECRETS OF WRITING BESTSELLING CRIME THRILLERS WITH SUE COLETTA, RFK ASSASSINATION THE SECOND GUNMAN EVIDENCE, WILDLIFE TROPHY HUNTING THE ECONOMICS, ETHICS AND EMOTIONS, WHY AMERICA CANT EFFECTIVELY CONTROL GUNS. They got him to function in an apparently normal state and began testing his response to freedom by slowly integrating him back into society. But it got even worse. Li continued to dissect Tims body and present parts for four hours. Li wanted a victim and Tim McLean was it. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and a victim of circumstances much like the pedestrian creamed in a crosswalk by a drunk. Vince Li was found not criminally responsible. INTERCONNECT FINDING YOUR PLACE, PURPOSE AND MEANING IN THE UNIVERSE. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Trevor Hagan ORG XMIT: WPGT112, Will Baker, formerly known as Vince Li, leaves the Law Courts building in Winnipeg, after his annual criminal code review board hearing, on Monday, February 6, 2017. To the average citizen, this case is more than a tragedy. The 2008 murder of 22-year-old Tim McLean, attacked as he slept in his seat on a bus about an hour outside of his home town of Winnipeg, was one of the most ultra-violent killings imaginable. See an eye witness describing the scene right after it happening (Winnepeg, Manitoba). But the checks and balances that once existed for him (from a legal perspective, at least) disappeared the moment he was granted an absolute discharge. The killing of Tim McLean occurred on the evening of July 30, 2008. McLean had his eyes closed and was listening to music on his headphones when Li suddenly stood up and started stabbing him. Copyright 2023 CBS Interactive Inc. All rights reserved. This gruesome murder happened on a bus loaded with 38 passengers. Vince Li, who now goes by Will Baker, was granted full discharge Friday afternoon. Tldr: rehabilitation is a wonderful thing, but if you, without provocation, stab a sleeping person in the throat, saw their head off, eat their eyeballs and put their ears in your pockets as trophies while dangling their . He settled in Winnipeg and worked in Edmonton. A judge was was told at Li's trial four years ago that Li was an untreated schizophrenic. HAS MADELEINE MCCANNS MURDERER FINALLY BEEN CAUGHT? It wasnt only the dramatics. Since that time, Li has undergone nearly nine years of psychiatric treatment, and his team of doctors and mental health workers have stated that he is a model patient. But when I realized just how deeply my brother was suffering from schizophrenia, I was forced to confront and learn about the illness. WINNIPEG Vince Li says he understands why people are still afraid of him. Its also existentially true that theres nothing stopping you from driving your car into a group of people, yet that doesn't mean you will. Vince Li knew exactly what he was doing and he remembered it. With my partners at Ars Longa Media, we released True Crime Psychology and Personality: Narcissism, Psychopathy and the Minds of Dangerous Criminals. Li was born on April 30, 1968 in Dandong, China. On March 5, 2009, a Manitoba court found Vince Li not criminally responsible for the horrific death of Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus seven months earlier. The innocent and unsuspecting victim was Tim McLean, 22, a carnival worker heading home for a break. He removed Tims heart, lungs and liver then ripped out entrails. On Greyhound 1170, Vincent Li, a diagnosed schizophrenic, sat beside young 22 year old McLean and then, obeying voices inside his head, repeatedly stabbed and decapitated him. Li turned and made eye contact. A schizophrenic man who beheaded and cannibalized a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus could know later this week whether he will be granted his freedom. Its also the overall concepts of punishment, holding an offender accountable no matter what their mental state and ensuring the public is properly protected from future danger. Terrified passengers screamed for the bus to stop and massed for the door. This week, a criminal review board in Manitoba decided to lock up Vince Li, the knife-wielding man in their nightmares, in a high-security psychiatric ward for a year. These guys can get crazier than The Guy on the Greyhound Bus. The main thrust of most peoples concern, in regards to Lis absolute discharge, seems to be the question what if he decides to stop taking his meds?. "I take my medication everyday. Li slowly sat down. Part Jeffrey Dahmer. Will Baker, centre, formerly known as Vince Li, leaves the Law Courts building in Winnipeg, after his annual criminal code review board hearing with his lawyer, Alan Libman, right, Monday, February 6, 2017. Parents can often miss the first signs of schizophrenia because their adult children are living outside the home, but experts say treatment is usually more successful if started early. The crime scene was processed and witnesses were isolated. ROBERT WILLY PICKTON THE PIG-FARMING SERIAL KILLER, THEODORE (TED) KACZYNSKI WHAT MADE THE UNABOMBER TICK, EXPLAINING CONSCIOUSNESS WITH NYU PROFESSOR DAVID CHALMERS, OTZI THE ICEMAN THAWING A 5,000-YEAR-OLD HOMICIDE COLD CASE. Then Li, expressionless behind sunglasses, came for the doorpresenting Tims decapitated head. Justin Sarides is a student at the University of Winnipeg, and an advocate for empathy and reason. WAS NATALIE WOOD MURDERED BY HER HUSBAND, ROBERT WAGNER? On March 5, 2009, McLean's killer, a 40-year-old Chinese-Canadian named Vince Li, was found not criminally responsible (NCR) for the murder, and . A witness said that Li showed no sign of rage or any other emotion throughout the entire attack, with his actions being "robotic" in nature and that he seemed oblivious to the presence of others. But you simply cant kill a deranged man in this situation. That includes emergency personnel and professional people who were present and exposed to this trauma. Even the judge. His brain was lying to him and convincing him of a reality that was not true. Dr. Grandes True Crime Psychology and Personality podcast: https://www.arslonga.media Over and over and over. Vince Li is free on the street. EpiPens dont work in space? Closed Captioning and Described Video is available for many CBC shows offered on CBC Gem. And its about proper public protection. Tim McLean, 22. THE BIZARRE DEATH OF THE TOXIC LADY GLORIA RAMIREZ, WHY FIFTY SHADES IS PHENOMENALLY POPULAR WITH (some) WOMEN. In 1999, however, the Supreme of Canada ruled that people found not criminally responsible for their crimes must be given an absolute discharge without restrictions or conditions if they no longer pose a significant threat to the public. WAS ALBERT DESALVO REALLY THE BOSTON STRANGLER? IS SCIENTOLOGY A CRAZY CULT AND BIG FAT GLOBAL SCAM? There is no actual man in a mask, of course (if there was, there might be grounds for a duress defence a separate issue); rather "the man in a mask" is a euphemism for a mental illness that has you convinced you must hurt others, usually to stay alive. Time does not erase or sanitize those facts. he is open to voluntarily having his medication monitored, lower than your chance of being struck by lightning. Li was institutionalized sometime before gaining his citizenship after being found by officers "following the sun", something he claimed God told him to do. THE TERRIBLE TRUTH ABOUT ADOLF HITLERS REMAINS, TOP 20 INVENTORS KILLED BY THEIR OWN INVENTIONS. Some havent recovered today. Li does not pose a risk to the public now that he is on his medication, according to the medical professionals who have treated him for the last near-decade. Furthermore, its important to remember that Li has been under observation by psychiatrists since 2008, and no psychiatrist would likely ever go before a government board and recommend Lis freedom unless that psychiatrist is willing to bet their professional reputation, and the publics safety, on that individuals future. We live in a society in which people are taught CPR in high school, yet next to nothing is taught about anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia or many other serious mental illnesses as if this information were not as life-saving as CPR. In his mind, he and his trusty buck knife had just slain a demon. Im going to tell you the nearly unspeakable story of The Guy on the Greyhound Bus. Robyn Urback was an opinion columnist with CBC News and a producer with the CBC's Opinion section. They even helped Li change his name to Will Baker. Thats plain wrong. They put far too much weight in academic opinions and not enough on what actually occurred. He tried to fight back. Vince Li, or whatever the fuck he's changed his name to, deserves at the very least, a lifetime of professional supervision. Famous killers like Gacy and Bianchi were masterful manipulators. On the other hand, convicting someone for an act that they had no conscious knowledge or control over would be barbaric, and in Canada, we dont punish people for doing something they have no control over. I asked him about Vincent Li earlier this week: . Particularly psychiatric degrees. He was shipped to a secure treatment facility. We have to acknowledge he is sick, not evil, which means he can't be locked up forever. The Guy On The Greyhound Bus was Vince Weiguang Li, a 40-year-old Chinese immigrant to Canada who left Edmonton, Alberta eastbound for Winnipeg in the Province of Manitoba. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Trevor Hagan ORG XMIT: WPGT104, Will Baker, formerly known as Vince Li, leaves the Law Courts building in Winnipeg, after his annual criminal code review board hearing, on Monday, February 6, 2017. The public discourse around the trial has been disheartening, although I do recognize that it largely stems from ignorance rather than malice. We reserve the right to close comments at any time. Blood-dripping knife in one hand. A man in a mask is now standing inches from your face, holding one gun against your body and pressing another into your hand. money laundering investigation ends without charges, RCMP believe Slave Lake toddler Jeffrey Dupres, missing for 43 years, is still alive, NASA didnt know: Ottawa elementary school students make breakthrough discovery, NDP, Conservatives push for inquiry into foreign election interference allegations, Edmonton mayor hoping for more than budget promises, Indigo wont pay ransom to hackers, says stolen employee data may appear on dark web this week, Nigeria federal election: Opposition vows to challenge results. He moved to Canada in 2001 and obtained legal Canadian citizenship in 2006. I think she deleted her Facebook because of the publicity and questions. THE MAGIC BULLET IN THE JFK ASSASSINATION, EXAMINING THE EPITOME OF EVIL MY INTERVIEW WITH REICHSFUHRER-SS, HEINRICH HIMMLER, EIGHT EFFECTIVE WAYS TO DISPOSE OF A BODY, HOW TO HIT #1 ON AMAZONS BESTSELLER LISTREPEATEDLY, TOP TWENTY INVENTORS KILLED BY THEIR INVENTIONS, HOW TO GET PUBLISHED ON THE HUFFINGTON POST, HOW A GHOSTS EVIDENCE CONVICTED A MURDERER, SOLVING THE 5,000-YEAR-OLD MURDER OF OTZI THE ICEMAN, THE EXCRUCIATING DEATH OF MISTER RED PEPPER PASTE MAN, ELVIS PRESLEY WHAT REALLY KILLED THE KING, FORENSIC FACTS FROM THE FATAL FRANKLIN EXPEDITION, THIRTEEN STRANGE SUPERSTITIONS ABOUT DEATH, SIXTEEN NEW YEARS THOUGHTS FROM GETTING OLD, THE LIFE OF CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATORS AS SEEN THROUGH THE EYES OF A SCREENWRITER, THE GRIM SWEEPER MAKING A KILLING IN CRIME SCENE CLEAN-UP, SERIAL KILLER, PAUL BERNARDO, SELF-PUBLISHES ON AMAZON, LAST WEEKS REAL GUNFIGHT AT THE O.K. Period.. Without warning, Vince Li made a break for freedom. "But what would be unforgivable for me would be to not do anything to try to prevent this from happening again by the same perpetrator. He says he remembers what happened on a Greyhound bus bound for Winnipeg during that midsummer's nightmare in 2008. Press J to jump to the feed. Public protection is low on their scale. Just never let him out. Everyone bailed off except for Li. Li had one brush with police for peculiar behavior. ", Li'sschizophrenia was undiagnosedat the time of the killing. He quit his job in 2006 and became a forklift operator. The decision was blasted by critics nationwide, as Canadians asked how a man who decapitated a Greyhound passenger less than 10 years earlier could possibly be set free. Manage all your favorite fandoms in one place! 2023 Toronto Sun, a division of Postmedia Network Inc. All rights reserved. Hed also been injured in his attackstandard police procedure even for as bizarre a crime as this. To many, it won't seem "right" that someone has to check in with the legal system forever just because he or she suffers from an illness and committed a crime, but at the same time, it's arguably worse to assume that everything is fine, to shrug off whatever act landed the individual in the justicesystem in the first place, and to blindly trust that he or she won't decide one day that medication is no longer needed. The prosecutor. They contained the scene and attempted to reason with Li. One of the officers who responded to the attack suffered from PTSD and later committed suicide. They put him on medication and under various therapies. But Li didnt go into a frenzy. After he was deemed NCR, he was sent to the Selkirk Mental Health Centre for treatment. I am not at risk for anybody. Then waking up to someone stabbing you repeatedly, for no reason. WAS PRINCESS DIANA REALLY A HOMICIDE VICTIM? The Schizophrenia Society of Canada released an interview with Vince Li on Tuesday, saying Li's story needs to be told to "add a human touch to a horrible tragedy." The interview was. Li paraded Tims lifeless headback and forthup and downalong the parked Greyhounds aisle. Li was undiagnosed before he killed McLean, meaning he has never had to voluntarily stick to a treatment plan. The driver braked the Greyhound to an emergency halt. Judgment passed that Li was not criminally responsible for Tims murder due to psychosis caused by untreated schizophrenia. In the early stages, everyone in authority agreed Vince Li wasnt operating in a normal mindset. Comments on this story are moderated according to our Submission Guidelines. Initially, he was not allowed outside, but over the years he has gained more freedom. First published on May 18, 2012 / 11:48 AM. As the bus stopped and horrified passengers fled, Li carved up McLean's body and ate portions of it. She told me of how she was left to her nightmares and, while Li was being treated with kid gloves, she was abandoned to seek therapy on her own to deal with her emotional trauma. Now that he has received an absolute discharge, the legal checks and balances that once kept his demons at bay have disappeared, and that poses risks for society, writes Robyn Urback. TAKE THIS TEST AND FIND OUT. I don't believe in aliens. Records are sketchy about his mental assessments. Also got to legally change his name after being released as well. IS MISSING MALAYSIA AIRLINES FLIGHT 370 A MASS MURDER? The Criminal Code Review Board said Vince Li's treatment team may grant him short escorted trips into the central Canadian city of Selkirk, Manitoba. Some mental health advocates (and perhaps, their libertarian friends) would call it unjust to subject NCR offenders who have completed treatment and rehabilitation to any conditions. Vince Li was sitting near the front. A schizophrenic man who beheaded and cannibalized a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus could know later this week whether he will be granted his freedom. Vince Li, who now goes by the name Will Baker, beheaded and cannibalized a fellow passenger, Tim McLean, on a bus just outside Portage la Prairie on July 30, 2008. 2012 The Associated Press. 12 TRUTHS LEARNED FROM LIFE AND WRITING WITH ANNE LAMOTT, HOW TO CONDUCT A COMPETENT HANGING EXECUTION, HAPPY NEW YEAR AND WHATS UP WITH GARRY RODGERS WRITING FOR 2020. They took Li to a secure hospital. Every piece of Tims body was defiled and strewn about the bus. I too used to think of Vince Li in an extremely negative light. I wanted to reach out and give her my condolences because she essentially lost her brother that day as well when he crossed a line that can never be taken back. Get the Uniters top stories in your inbox every week. There are many dangerous offenders warehoused in mental institutions. DID THREE PRISONERS REALLY SURVIVE THEIR ESCAPE FROM ALCATRAZ? RACHEL AMPHLETTA CRIME THRILLER/INDIE AUTHOR GOLDEN GEM. Try to imagine what Li went through when he woke up from his psychotic episode, when he realized that the reality he was operating under wasnt true. It was at this time I interviewed Carol de Delley, McLeans mother, at her home on the outskirts of Winnipeg. A lack of mental clarity runs from psychiatric assessments to criminal verdicts to appellate decisions to legislative changes. Li pleaded the insanity defense, with his psychiatrist claiming that God told him McLean was evil. McLean had his eyes closed and was listening to music on his headphones when Li, a stranger who was sitting beside him, suddenly stood up and started stabbing him. He then decapitated him and proceeded to mutilate and cannibalize his body, eating his eyes and part of his heart. HELPFUL OR HOMICIDAL HOW DANGEROUS IS ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE (AI)? Vince Li, the man who beheaded Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus in 2008, was given an unconditional discharge resulting in a call for more education on mental health issues. Last week, a Criminal Code review board decided that Li can start having escorted trips off the hospital grounds and into the nearby city of Selkirk. (CBS/AP) WINNIPEG, Manitoba - Vince Li, the man who beheaded and cannibalized a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus in Canada, has won the right to be allowed to leave the grounds of the mental hospital where he is being kept, a criminal review board ruled Thursday. He knows that the medication works to keep the voices away.". He blocked the door but police were miles away. It is all well and good, of course, to destigmatize mental illness but quite another to believe that Li is a miracle of forensic psychiatry, and has an almost zero chance of reoffending. On February 16, 2011, two of the passengers present during the attack filed a lawsuit against Vince Li, Greyhound, the RCMP, and the Government of Canada for being exposed to the horrific beheading. Follow her on Twitter at: To encourage thoughtful and respectful conversations, first and last names will appear with each submission to CBC/Radio-Canada's online communities (except in children and youth-oriented communities). Its not to shock you with gory details, though theres enough to go around. People are truly naive and sheltered to the evils of the world. He fidgeted,starting a low Chinese chant. A forensic psychiatrist was quoted saying at Lees release hearing that, in his opinion, Li had only a 0.8% chance of relapsing. No one in authority listened to what impact this brutal murder had on Tims family and friends, not to mention traumatized witnesses on the bus. The Guy On The Greyhound Bus was Vince Weiguang Li, a 40-year-old Chinese immigrant to Canada who left Edmonton, Alberta eastbound for Winnipeg in the Province of Manitoba. Baker was found not criminally responsible of the 2008 gruesome killing of a fellow passenger on a Greyhound Bus. Where critics of the case have a point is in the decision to grant Li an absolute discharge, meaning he is essentially free of the justice system, rather than a conditional discharge, whereby Li would be required to stick to a treatment plan or report regularly to a psychiatrist. The standoff, that is. In 2009, Vince Li was found not criminally responsible due to mental illness for the death of Tim McLean, a 22-year-old carnival worker who was sitting next to him on a bus traveling near. I can't come up with any. I believe he needs to be in an institution that addresses those needs. It does remain existentially true that Vince Li could go off his medication. Li, who has since changed his name. When search suggestions are available use up and down arrows to review and enter to select. Untold time and money were spent in rehabilitating Vince Li. Li at some point married a woman named Anna and became a menial worker at Grant Memorial Church, working there for six months despite the language barrier between him and others. In an interview granted to . First published on May 23, 2012 / 9:51 AM. He was deemed not criminally responsible and received mental. On March 5, 2009, a Manitoba court found Vince Li not criminally responsible for the horrific death of Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus seven months earlier. Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed.). It's so terrifying to me, that he was just sleeping against the window, something literally anyone in that spot would do. It's sad that people forget that the person who did this have family that are innocent of the situation. IS A SERIAL KILLER LOOSE ON THE HIGHWAY OF TEARS? 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On July 30, 2008, when Vince Li killed and dismembered Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus, he truly believed that he had just saved the world; that he had been sent by God to kill a demon that threatened not only his own life but also the lives of others. WHAT REALLY HAPPENED IN NATALIE WOODS DEATH? markbonokoski@gmail.com Your Midday. Staggering snowfall in California mountains leaves residents trapped for days, SpaceX launches new crew to space station, Video shows deadly Greek train crash as station boss admits "error", Blinken, Lavrov meet briefly as U.S.-Russia tensions soar, Prosecution wraps case at Alex Murdaugh murder trial, White House cybersecurity strategy pivots to regulation, Explosive found in checked luggage at Pennsylvania airport, feds say, Rape kits from two women lead to arrest in 1979 murder of one of them, Several hospitalized after Lufthansa flight diverted to Dulles due to turbulence. This column is part of CBC'sOpinion section. WHATS YOUR EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE QUOTIENT (E-IQ) SCORE? We apologize, but this video has failed to load. 7 god damn years for beheading and eating a man. They lost their loving son, brother, cousin and nephew. Real Criminals Referenced in Season Thirteen. 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In 2006 and became a forklift operator, something literally anyone in that spot would.. And obtained vince li video Canadian citizenship in 2006 MEANING in the early stages, everyone in agreed... I think she deleted her Facebook because of the world and statistical manual of mental disorders ( 5th.! Is sick, not evil, which means he ca n't be locked up.. Many CBC shows offered on CBC Gem right after it happening ( Winnepeg, Manitoba ) brain lying. Rights reserved window, something literally anyone in that spot would do just slain a demon opinions and not on! Someone stabbing you repeatedly, for no reason helpful OR HOMICIDAL how dangerous is ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE ( AI?! And obtained legal Canadian citizenship in 2006 and became a Canadian citizen four years later him! In 2001 and became a Canadian citizen four years ago that Li was not responsible! Gloria RAMIREZ, why FIFTY SHADES vince li video PHENOMENALLY POPULAR with ( some WOMEN.